The Souls in Purgatory are in a Constant State of Union with God

St. Francis de Sales was known to reiterate: “We do not remember sufficiently our dead, our faithful departed.”

The holy souls in purgatory are in need of our prayers as they endure the purifying process of God’s mercy. However, we tend to have a bleak view of purgatory, and St. Francis de Sales wants to assure us that there is room for much hope and consolation. The below chat reviews why we need not fear purgatory, but instead can anticipate in it God’s gift of mercy.

If you like the chat below, check out the Living Jesus Chat Room of the Visitation Sisters. Join us at 7:30 p.m. ET each Sunday! We read a passage of St. Francis de Sales and gather great insights and sharing!

What Happens to the Holy Souls in Purgatory?

Visitation Sister: Welcome, everyone!

Visitation Sister: What do you think of this description of purgatory as both a place of torment and quasi-paradise? Does it make you hopeful? Does it make you less nervous about possibly going there?

Deborah: I loved this reading this week…not like I don’t like the others, but this one really touched me deeply.

Visitation Sister: We took a little break from the letters this week to chat about purgatory but will return to the other letters next week. Glad we did this!

Deborah: I never thought of the promise purgatory offers. Someday I will be with the Lord.

Visitation Sister: Yes: one is saved!

Deborah: I never thought of purgatory with hope before. It even made the suffering more understandable and less frightening. Any separation from God is painful, the only problem then is that I no longer have the ability to change my experience, and now I can understand the importance of our prayers for the souls in purgatory.

Visitation Sister: I guess it was not emphasized because certainly St Francis de Sales wrote about it so long ago, but we don’t often learn certain things when younger.

Deborah: I know I find it easier just to think of the pain of punishment rather than the pain of separation.

Sherry: I agree with Deborah. The reading was great this week.

Visitation Sister: Timely too.

Denise: This is a perfect topic for this evening. thank you.

Deborah: Truly.

Sherry: Yes, well-timed Sister. Purgatory sounded to me a lot like holiness though. We had the Beatitudes in our Readings today…. and somehow, they speak exactly about this attitude as St. Francis de SalesS describes it here too.

Deborah: I’ve always prayed for the poor souls in purgatory, but never really felt the connection…not saying I didn’t think I’d end up there too.

Visitation Sister: It’s interesting how the first question is put: torment and quasi-paradise.

Denise: Torment is a strong description.

Visitation Sister: I think it’s our own desire to see God that is a part of that. About the Beatitudes too, how do you relate that?

Deborah: The anticipation of union with God is pretty powerful, especially since we’d have no more part in our entry into the kingdom.

Sherry: I found it a beautiful place though. Being absolutely filled with the desire to be with HIM, no earthly distractions.

Deborah: Absolutely! And I believe that is why the recognition of that separation becomes so extreme.

Visitation Sister: Yes, we really depend on others, totally dependent at that point, on the saints and on earthly people.

Sherry: As for the Beatitudes – they all express our internal “set up” to be holy... to be truly God’s – to leave behind all and live solemnly for HIM and to be with Him... and of course His kingdom.

Deborah: That’s why I believe it becomes so important to live the beatitudes while we can, leaving others as witnesses to help us.

Visitation Sister: Ah... yes and in purgatory we are living for Him, and I believe is it so we can intercede for others still?

Deborah: Do you mean we could intercede for others but not for ourselves?

Sherry: So... souls in purgatory can intercede for us but not for themselves, right? I am not sure if I understand that.

Visitation Sister: I don’t know for sure, I have to look this up.

Denise: He says the souls in purgatory are in a constant state of union with God. Surely, I cannot imagine this while I am here.

Deborah: Wow, this is so amazing! There is so much hope in this.

Sherry: I agree Deborah. so much hope.

Visitation Sister: From a Catholic site: As we pray this month for the holy souls in purgatory a question may arise: Can the souls in purgatory pray for us — and do they? This is a question that I have been asked recently. I always assumed that the answer was “yes;” but, after doing some research in the Catholic Encyclopedia I see that the question has been open to opinion, or least it used to be before the sixteenth century. There is no definitive teaching of the Church, however, on the subject, even the ordinary magisterium.

Deborah: I needed to read this a few times before I even got it…sort of, but then it was so new to me, I immediately forgot it!

Sherry: Thank you, Sr. Susan. I am glad that this is the answer. Cause it always confused me that they can pray for us but not for themselves.

Visitation Sister: Often when a friend or relative dies we do assume they can pray for us but that is if they are in heaven. We need to pray them in, sometimes.

Sherry: That’s how I would see it too.

Deborah: But since they are in constant union with God, why wouldn’t they be able to intercede?

Sherry: Deborah, I think souls in purgatory LONG for constant union with GOD but do know they need more cleansing, at least that’s how I understood it.

Deborah: But in the reading, it is said that they are already in union with God. They know they will be with Him at His choosing, so I would imagine they can pray for us.

Sherry: But how can you feel lonely when you are in full union with GOD? I just get glimpses sometimes in my prayer times, and I cannot imagine feeling lonely when GOD unites Himself to my Spirit. The readings say the poor souls feel lonely.

Deborah: I understand it to mean, they are in union, but they know they have not achieved the beatific vision…complete union in heaven & that hunger must be overwhelming, but they are not in hell, so they know there’s hope.

Sherry: I totally agree Deborah. I actually feel that hunger sometimes. This overwhelming desire to be in union with holiness. And by that I mean, of course, GOD.

Deborah: I believe it’s a great gift to feel this hunger.

Visitation Sister: I agree!

Deborah: Gift & blessing!

Sherry: I agree, and I love this pain in my heart.

Am I Praying Into a “Vacuum?”

Visitation Sister: How can we ensure a more regular practice of praying for the poor souls in purgatory?

Deborah: During the Mass we have the prayer of the faithful, and during the Consecration, we as a Church pray for the dead, also in the Liturgy of the Hours, as well as, just in remembrance each day.

Sherry: My Mom passed away 17 years ago. She re-entered the Catholic Church 3 days before her death. I was a Protestant at that time. In the Catholic Church now for 5 years. Still... I cannot pray for my Mom’s soul. I am quite sure that my Mom was nowhere near sainthood when she died, but it frustrates me that I am kind of praying into the “vacuum.” Do my prayers make a difference? What if she is already in heaven? This really troubles me.

Visitation Sister: If she is in heaven, I think God applies the prayers to others, in a sense as no prayer is wasted.

Sherry: I know, no prayer is wasted, but I never ever felt the Spirit inviting me to do so. There is a blockage in me somewhat. I am not sure if it is psychologically or theologically. Where can I find formal prayers?

Visitation Sister: Susan Tassone is an author who writes prayers and meditations and such about purgatory. Also this book.

Deborah: There are Catholic websites with formal prayers, but I don’t have the addresses right now. I just google for certain prayers, that’s how I found St. Francis de Sales.

Sherry: Thanks, Deborah.

Sherry: Oh... thanks Sr. Susan. Are you the author of the second book, Sr. Susan?

Visitation Sister: No, it is a lay woman, I think.

What Is Heroic Virtue?

Visitation Sister: What can we do now to shave off time in purgatory or avoid going there altogether?

Deborah: Live+Jesus, we must bring the kingdom to reality while we live. Live the Gospels…

Sherry: I try to submit to His holy will as much as I can. Living a life of detachment and try to live “poor in spirit.”

Sherry: I am an Evangelist by heart, but I found that in the last 5 years, where God has really brought me on my knees, I have reached more hearts than ever before. And it was all so gentle and quiet.

Deborah: I try to just do what Jesus taught and put the rest in His hands.

Visitation Sister: Heroic virtue brings us to heaven, martyrdom also, but otherwise I do not know how we could know until we die what happens.

Sherry: Please explain heroic virtue.

Visitation Sister: Virtue that is very consistent and beyond what logic or common sense would think adequate. Practiced over many years.

Denise: To the question: I believe we can do acts of reparation and offer our suffering, pray very much for holiness, and then learn to do whatever he tells you.

Sherry: I am still working to fully understand “offering up our suffering,” but I realize that this is not the topic tonight.

Visitation Sister: HEROIC VIRTUE.

Definition:

The performance of extraordinary virtuous actions with readiness and over a period of time. The moral virtues are exercised with ease, while faith, hope, and charity are practiced to an eminent degree. The presence of such virtues is required by the Church as the first step toward canonization. The person who has practiced heroic virtue is declared to be Venerable, and is called a “Servant of God.”

Denise: I will look up more about heroic virtue, Sister, thank you.

Sherry: Very interesting, will look that up for sure.

Visitation Sister: Offering up our troubles to God is a great way to remember that, in our faith, suffering is never wasted or meaningless when it’s united with Christ’s suffering on the Cross, for atonement for sins.

Deborah: In the little annoyances that I endure, I offer them together with the sufferings of Jesus and I offer them for my parents, relatives, and friends.

The Poor Souls Need Us

Visitation Sister: Why do you think emphasis on the needs of the souls of purgatory has lost focus in today’s spiritual practices?

Sherry: Because the world is such a mess and also out of sight – out of mind somewhat, in a way, everything here on earth was done – what else can we do?

Deborah: You’re right. It seems to have fallen into the realm of misunderstanding, to me.

Sherry: We have lost the vision that the Church is not only the visible church here on earth. At least I often lose that vision.

Denise: Our priests not talking about it? I can’t recall the last time I heard purgatory mentioned. Confusing.

Deborah: Today it is not easy to think of suffering for something that is loved and who loves us. I think the pandemic may have brought our attention back to that.

Sherry: Well... today it was mentioned in the homily.

Visitation Sister: Purgatory was?

Sherry: Yes, purgatory. Father took the liberty to preach on the All Saints Day and not on the Gospel readings.

Deborah: It’s also hard to think of suffering that is happening outside of our view. The world is having a hard enough time dealing with the suffering it is experiencing.

Sherry: I agree Deborah. being bombarded every day with so much suffering in the visible world. I catch myself, that I kind of do not want to be bothered now on top of that with the invisible world. Although, I do know that everything GOD asks from us is indeed a gift to us. So, I do not know why I still resist doing it.

Deborah: I am human, and I do the same thing. What I need to keep reminding myself is that I need to be Jesus’ hands, feet, and heart in the world simply for Him and not for the pay-off.

Sherry: Yes.

Denise: Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.

Deborah: Amen. It’s hard and a constant challenge that will never end…I hope.

The Enemy Has No Access to Purgatory

Visitation Sister: What does it mean that the souls in purgatory “are purified voluntarily”?

Sherry: Well, it sounds that they are not forced. There is a process of cooperation. They lean in – in this cleansing process – although it seems quite painful.

Deborah: I took that to mean that since they already seek union with God, they willingly endure whatever purifications necessary to realize that union.

Sherry: Well said, Deborah. But that’s exactly our road to holiness here on earth too. So, it is basically a continuation of this process here.

Denise: As we would say yes to what God asks of us, I don’t suppose we could be in purgatory if we had not agreed.

Deborah: I love the way you said it, “they lean in.” YES! they certainly do.

Sherry: And, Denise, yes, the very fact that we are in purgatory means that we have found a YES to God already.

Visitation Sister: Since we are saved and now only would do the complete Will of God?

Deborah: Yep, I totally believe that the process of conversion continues even after we’re no longer walking the earth. I think St. Augustine said that conversion continues until 15 minutes after we die….

Denise: This is an interesting thought, Deborah. Is it possible to be in purgatory and then somehow to lose being there?

Sherry: Interesting question, Denise. My gut feeling says no. The quote from St. Augustine confuses me since there is no time and space in the realm of souls I thought.

Deborah: I don’t think that’s an option. The Lord has brought you there to complete your purification and once there, that is all you would want. I don’t believe the devil has any place there.

Sherry: I agree. I don’t think that anyone would step out of purgatory.

Visitation Sister: Where is the quote in full, from St Augustine?

Denise: What does it mean that the souls in purgatory “are purified voluntarily”? If it is voluntary then can it also be not, while we are there?

Sherry: Interesting also that the enemy has no access to purgatory. I never thought about that.

Deborah: I think St. Augustine was just trying to tell us that we are still in God’s hands even if we did not live a perfect life here on earth.

Deborah: Our constant reaching out for God, I believe, saves us from complete separation or hell.

Sherry: Ladies, it was a delight to chat with you. Unfortunately, I must close now. Blessings on all of you. and I hope we can chat next Sunday again.

Deborah: Have a blessed and safe week.

Visitation Sister: Thanks for being here!

Deborah: These chats are really wonderful.

Denise: I did not realize it is early.

Deborah: I always had questions about purgatory and indulgences since there is no time in eternity??? I was given answers, but even as a child they didn’t make sense to me.

Denise: Mostly I learned tonight I know little about purgatory! Sometimes I have the belief we can do time in purgatory here. I think this comes from St Teresa Avila. if the Saints wrote, they left us much.

Deborah: I haven’t read much from Teresa, but I often felt that way. It’s so hard to find everything & often depending on when they lived, their ideas may be slanted this way or that. Well, let’s spend the week praying for God to help us understand. I am going to sign off too. Have a blessed week, Denise. Hope to chat with you next week. Good night.

Denise: St Teresa of Avila speaks of the Holy Souls | Carmel, Garden of God.

Deborah: Thanks. I’ll look into it.

Denise: I will read this tonight. Goodnight! As to the Church Suffering in purgatory, St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that they are not able to know, by themselves, our prayers; however, it is piously believed, and taught by St. Alphonsus Liguori, that God makes our prayers known to them – not directly, as they are deprived of the beatific vision until they enter Heaven, but by infusing this knowledge into their souls.

If you liked this chat, check out the Living Jesus Chat Room of the Visitation Sisters.